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Wednesday, December 3, 2008 · sitting No. 12
Commons debates economic statement as coalition tensions rise
The House devoted the largest share of its sitting to debate on the economic and fiscal statement under government orders. Members discussed the absence of detailed stimulus measures in the statement and the need for a budget response to job losses and the global downturn.
In question period Liberal MP Stéphane Dion pressed the Prime Minister on the government's refusal to act on the economic crisis while Conservative MP Stephen Harper accused the opposition of pursuing a pact with Quebec sovereignists instead of preparing the budget. Bloc Québécois MP Michel Guimond asked whether the Prime Minister would face a confidence vote rather than seek prorogation.
NDP MP Libby Davies raised a point of order over unparliamentary language used by Conservative MP Dean Del Mastro during the exchanges.
From the Hansard record of the sitting. Full Hansard
No CPAC Question Period upload is on file for this day. CPAC’s channel goes back to December 2019.
Who held the floor · 2008-12-03
AI-rated The sitting score and the rating of each answer come from a language model reading Hansard. How the AI rates this
Other moments
Persons with Disabilities
Liberal MP Kirsty Duncan noted that one in seven Canadians lives with a disability and called for dignity and justice under the UN convention theme.
Read the exchangeStatus of Women
Liberal MP Anita Neville asked why the government attacked equal pay provisions in the economic update while Conservative MP Vic Toews defended a new proactive mechanism adopted from Ontario and Quebec models.
Read the exchangePoints of Order
Conservative MP Dean Del Mastro refused to withdraw the word traitor and said the opposition owed Canadians an apology for crossing to the separatists.
Read the exchangeCluster Munitions
Liberal MP Keith Martin welcomed Canada's signing of the Convention on Cluster Munitions but said the government still lacked an action plan to meet commitments.
Read the exchangeEmployment Insurance Act
NDP MP Yvon Godin introduced measures to raise benefits to 66 per cent of insurable earnings and to remove the waiting period for claimants.
Read the exchangeQuestion Period, exchange by exchange
AI-rated Each answer’s rating (answered, partly answered, deflected, answered something else) is a model’s reading of the exchange. How the AI rates this
- misdirectedThe EconomyStéphane Dion (Liberal) asked Stephen Harper (Conservative). loaded question.Answer ignores the economy question and attacks the asker over a coalition instead.
The Liberal Party leader proposes to help the economy by signing a pact with the Quebec sovereignists to govern the country.
- misdirectedThe EconomyStéphane Dion (Liberal) asked Stephen Harper (Conservative). loaded question.Answer evades the duty question by attacking the Liberal-Bloc arrangement with a quote.
The leader of the Liberal Party is not working with us to prepare the budget and to strengthen this economy, but to weaken this country.
- deflectedThe EconomyStéphane Dion (Liberal) asked Stephen Harper (Conservative). loaded question.Answer shifts to demanding proposals and again attacks the separatist deal rather than addressing job-saving plans.
if the leader of the Liberal Party wants to save the jobs of Canadians, he can put on the table specific proposals that will save those jobs.
- misdirectedThe EconomyRalph Goodale (Liberal) asked Stephen Harper (Conservative). loaded question.Answer ignores the call for new economic measures and instead accuses the Liberal leader of giving Bloc a veto.
He is proposing to govern with the Bloc Québécois and to give it a veto over all important decisions, over all financial policies in every sector of this country.
- misdirectedThe EconomyRalph Goodale (Liberal) asked Stephen Harper (Conservative). loaded question.Answer dodges the recession and stimulus critique by fixating on flag placement and the coalition imagery.
If the Liberal Party continues down this path, those images will never be forgotten by the Canadian people.
- deflectedThe EconomyMr. Gilles Duceppe (Bloc) asked Stephen Harper (Conservative). loaded question.Answer avoids admitting past coalition talks and instead questions the Bloc leader's mandate.
If he is about to do so, he should be prepared to face his own voters and obtain a democratic mandate.
- deflectedThe EconomyMr. Gilles Duceppe (Bloc) asked Stockwell Day (Conservative). loaded question.Answer denies knowledge of the document and pivots to personal rejection of any separatist deal.
- misdirectedThe EconomyMr. Pierre Paquette (Bloc) asked Stockwell Day (Conservative). loaded question.Answer refuses to address the legitimacy challenge and reiterates opposition to coalitions with separatists.
No coalition with separatists.
- misdirectedThe EconomyMr. Pierre Paquette (Bloc) asked Lawrence Cannon (Conservative). loaded question.Answer ignores the coalition legitimacy query and pivots to unrelated historical attacks on separatism.
Today, I look at the Leader of the Opposition, who comes from the same city as I do, who represents a longstanding tradition—because people know that both my grandparents sat here in this House—and I urge him to continue that longstanding tradition.
- misdirectedThe EconomyJack Layton (NDP) asked Stephen Harper (Conservative). loaded question.Answer evades the economic plan question by accusing the asker of plotting with separatists instead.
the bold plan of the leader of the NDP is that the day the election is over he starts meeting with the separatists to plot a coalition to overturn the results of the election without any proposals to help any of the ordinary people he is talking about.
- deflectedThe EconomyJack Layton (NDP) asked Stephen Harper (Conservative). loaded question.Answer shifts to urging passage of specific measures and attacks the coalition rather than addressing the vote or economic crisis directly.
if the Leader of the NDP wants to help this economy, he would immediately pass the elements in the economic and fiscal update that help the manufacturing and automobile sectors, that help the credit markets, that help pensioners and RRIF holders.
- misdirectedThe EconomyJack Layton (NDP) asked Stephen Harper (Conservative). loaded question.Answer repeatedly reframes the query as a coalition plot instead of engaging with the economic plan or job-saving demands.
the leader of the New Democratic Party does not have a plan for the economy; he has a plan to govern this country with Quebec sovereignists.
- deflectedThe EconomyScott Brison (Liberal) asked Jim Flaherty (Conservative). loaded question.Answer counters by listing coalition opposition to specific aids rather than addressing the shutdown or economic plan failure.
why is the member opposite and his party all members of the new socialist coalition, the new separatist coalition?
- misdirectedThe EconomyScott Brison (Liberal) asked Jim Flaherty (Conservative). loaded question.Answer pivots entirely to coalition criticism and quotes attacking the NDP instead of responding to job losses or Parliament shutdown.
The new separatist coalition is opposed to helping pensioners, seniors and small businesses.
- deflectedThe EconomyMr. Todd Russell (Liberal) asked Lisa Raitt (Conservative). loaded question.Answer mentions community trust funding briefly but diverts to coalition veto attack without addressing layoffs or economic fundamentals.
However, I find it ironic that the member is only interested in listening to his constituents when it is for the purposes of sustaining the separatist coalition and when it comes to actually listening for the purposes, on a topic as fundamental as giving the separatists a veto on national--
- misdirectedThe EconomyMr. Todd Russell (Liberal) asked Lisa Raitt (Conservative). loaded question.Answer dismisses the question by labeling the asker as speaking for separatists and attacks the coalition instead of discussing any economic plan.
The member for Labrador is not speaking on behalf of his constituents. He is speaking on behalf of a separatist coalition.
- misdirectedThe Conservative GovernmentMr. Michel Guimond (Bloc) asked Lawrence Cannon (Conservative). loaded question.The answer ignores the question on facing a confidence vote and instead attacks the asker about a supposed secret agreement.
What agreement did he made to trade off his right to veto on three occasions, on two budgets and a throne speech?
- misdirectedThe Conservative GovernmentMr. Gilles Duceppe (Bloc) asked Lawrence Cannon (Conservative). substantive question.The answer evades the contradiction about veto power by questioning the Bloc's agreement and Quebec funding instead.
The leaders of the Bloc Québécois and the PQ are going around saying they have won a billion dollars.
- misdirectedThe Conservative GovernmentMr. Gilles Duceppe (Bloc) asked Lawrence Cannon (Conservative). loaded question.The answer sidesteps the recalled statement on coalitions and demands the opposition reveal the full agreement details.
Will the Leader of the Opposition and the leader of the Bloc Québécois tell us today precisely and exactly what the agreement contains, giving us the whole truth, and concealing nothing?
- deflectedThe Conservative GovernmentMr. Gilles Duceppe (Bloc) asked Stockwell Day (Conservative). loaded question.The answer avoids addressing the past coalition statement by suggesting a private discussion after question period.
maybe after question period, outside the House, the member will be able to tell us all whether he and I ever talked about a coalition.
- misdirectedThe Prime MinisterKen Dryden (Liberal) asked Mr. Pierre Poilievre (Conservative). rhetorical question.The answer ignores the question on repairing Parliament dynamics and instead accuses the opposition of siding with separatists.
Whose side are they on? Will they stand up for Canada or will they stand for the separatist contract?
- deflectedThe Prime MinisterKen Dryden (Liberal) asked Stephen Harper (Conservative). rhetorical question.The answer reframes the issue as a choice for the opposition rather than addressing how to repair relations with the Prime Minister.
If they really believe governing the country in a deal with the separatists is good for the country, then they should take that to the Canadian people and get a mandate for it or they should walk away from it and say it was a mistake.
- misdirectedThe Prime MinisterDenis Coderre (Liberal) asked Jim Flaherty (Conservative). loaded question.The answer attacks the coalition's economic plan instead of addressing the Prime Minister's lack of confidence or economic measures.
here is what a separatist coalition economic plan looks like: higher taxes, weakened stock markets, eroding our savings and killing Canadian jobs, all paid for with Monopoly money.
- misdirectedThe Prime MinisterDenis Coderre (Liberal) asked Lawrence Cannon (Conservative). loaded question.The answer evades the question on facing Parliament by demanding the opposition renounce the agreement or go to the people.
His leader has made a pact with the leader of the Bloc Québécois.
- deflectedThe EconomyMr. Thomas Mulcair (NDP) asked Jim Flaherty (Conservative). loaded question.The answer ignores the specific question on job losses and instead attacks the opposition's spending plans.
The attitude, in fact, of the separatist coalition is to spend $30 billion and put this country back into permanent debt.
- misdirectedThe EconomyMr. Thomas Mulcair (NDP) asked John Baird (Conservative). rhetorical question.The answer attacks the asker and coalition instead of addressing the Prime Minister's handling of the economy.
there is one thing this Prime Minister , this team, and this government will never do, and that is accept a separatist government on this side of the House in this country.
- deflectedThe Conservative GovernmentMrs. Carole Freeman (Bloc) asked Mr. Pierre Poilievre (Conservative). loaded question.The answer dismisses the question by stating it has nothing to do with the current government rather than addressing transparency concerns.
there was a public inquiry. We expect to receive the results of the inquiry in June, but that has nothing to do with our government.
- misdirectedThe Conservative GovernmentMrs. Carole Freeman (Bloc) asked Mr. Pierre Poilievre (Conservative). loaded question.The answer changes the subject to attack the opposition coalition instead of addressing confidence in the Prime Minister.
judging from the overwhelmingly negative reaction they have all received to the separatist coalition, they are now trying to change the channel.
- partly answeredStatus of WomenAnita Neville (Liberal) asked Vic Toews (Conservative). loaded question.The answer addresses the pay equity mechanism but avoids the question on attacking women's rights in the economic update.
what we find unacceptable is that women would have to wait for 15 years to resolve complaints.
- deflectedStatus of WomenAnita Neville (Liberal) asked Vic Toews (Conservative). loaded question.The answer defends the new mechanism but ignores the accusation of attacking women's rights to focus on past Liberal inaction.
for 13 years the Liberals did nothing with respect to pay equity for women.
- misdirectedThe EconomyMs. Dawn Black (NDP) asked John Baird (Conservative). loaded question.The answer pivots to attacking the coalition with separatists instead of addressing job losses or stimulus in BC.
it is this government that is building Canada, and it is that party opposite that wants to join in a coalition government with the separatists.
- misdirectedThe EconomyMs. Dawn Black (NDP) asked Stephen Harper (Conservative). rhetorical question.The answer attacks the coalition deal and refuses the demand for a vote by calling for an election instead.
the only jobs that this deal with the separatists creates are six cabinet jobs for the NDP.
- misdirectedPoints of OrderMs. Libby Davies (NDP) asked Mr. Dean Del Mastro (Conservative). substantive question.The answer refuses the requested apology and instead attacks the opposing party and its actions.
They are complete sellouts. I will not apologize.
- misdirectedPoints of OrderMr. Pierre Paquette (Bloc) asked Mr. Steven Blaney (Conservative). substantive question.The answer ignores the tabling request and instead raises a separate complaint about another member's language.
I respectfully ask the hon. member for York Centre to withdraw his comments.
- misdirectedPoints of OrderMs. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (NDP) asked Mr. Dean Del Mastro (Conservative). substantive question.The answer avoids the complaint about shouting and instead accuses the opposing party of violating Canadians' rights.
the only rights to be violated in our country are the rights of each and every Canadian, which that party proposes to trample all over.
- deflectedPoints of OrderMr. Michel Guimond (Bloc) asked Jay Hill (Conservative). substantive question.The answer shifts to a general discussion of decorum rather than addressing the quoted unparliamentary constituent remarks.
I thought all parties and all 308 members of Parliament committed themselves to greater civility in this chamber, greater decorum—
- partly answeredPoints of OrderMauril Bélanger (Liberal) asked Jay Hill (Conservative). substantive question.The answer acknowledges the decorum issue and references unparliamentary language but does not resolve the specific point raised.
You know that is not allowed. It is unparliamentary language—
- deflectedPoints of OrderMr. Marcel Proulx (Liberal) asked Jay Hill (Conservative). rhetorical question.The answer criticizes the interjection as unhelpful instead of engaging the underlying decorum point.
How is that helpful to us trying to move beyond this?
- deflectedPoints of OrderAnita Neville (Liberal) asked Jay Hill (Conservative). rhetorical question.The answer pivots to a general call for chamber control without addressing the specific accusation.
You have a huge job to do if we are going to get this chamber back under control.
- deflectedPoints of OrderMr. Michel Guimond (Bloc) asked Mr. Tom Lukiwski (Conservative). substantive question.The answer discusses constituent emails about the coalition but sidesteps the question on offensive language regarding francophones.
The vast majority of these emails and communiqués are consistent. They are suggesting that they do not want to see a separatist coalition.